Wayland,

I did buy the bernina frame for the 730 and it works really well with some limitations (space). My intent is to eventually buy the 830. The deal I got on the frame was stellar and I didn't want to pass it up but I also didn't want the frame to sit in the box until I have enough to buy the 830 next year. So... I asked the dealer to set up a 730 on the frame so I could do a test run. Surprisingly, the dealer had sold multiple frames to 730 users (you just need the BSR). I liked what I saw and decided to purchase it. It works great for small projects, quilting small sections, and practicing. I will tell you though that it is a pain to set up. My husband spent an entire day putting it together. The positive is that it definitely has that Bernina/Grace Frame quality.

Maria

I bought a Bernina 640 on ebay a couple years ago...got an excellent price on it, and it was in mint condition. I probably would not have bought it if I'd had to buy it new from a dealer -- too expensive for me. And, I live in a rural area, so far from any Bernina dealer that I wouldn't be able to take classes, and can't reasonably take the machine for servicing. (But -- be careful who you buy from on ebay; check their ratings and feedback.)

That said, I'd love it if there were a Bernina dealer anywhere near me. I'd like to be able to get a tuneup on my machine, and I'd really like to take classes to learn how to use all its features. Alas, the closest dealer is a couple hours away.

There are some great buys on all kinds of sewing machines on ebay; I'd definitely use it again.

Teri,

The point is when a customer calls...should not The Dealer be able to present the information to the customer over the phone. Arming yourself with information is the first step in becoming consumer and potential customer. Making the process cumbersome is a turn off...from my own personal experience.
I have also bought cars and negotiate the price. But the dealers have been open about prices. Can you imagine buying a car and the dealer when you call will not give you a price quote over the phone? Frankly, as a single woman...I am solely responsible for my finances. So negotiation is part of what I do when spending money. On a side note: Women...you negotiate all the time...you help negotiate issues between your kids...and yes...you negotiate all the time with your husband. You, too, can wheel and deal.
I realize that if we want to voice change concerning Bernina we should do it directly. But in no way does it mean we cannot discuss it here.
In fact, by discussing the issue it empowers others to also contact Bernina on the very same subject. Others may have felt this was a solitarty experience to only to them.
I feel that this conversation has gone as far as it can. I can only encourage those who have issues with dealers or business practices should contact Bernina directly. Again...making the process easier could make it easier for guys and gals to part with their hard earned money. I would also add contacting a company to complain...or to suggest a business practice...be direct and respectful. Please give them complete details. You may be surprised at the outcome.

FW

Fabric Whisperer,
I don't know how to answer that question. I don't see it as jumping through hoops to get what we want and/or need. I personally see it as research & negotiation. For example, dh & I recently purchased a new vehicle...because of my schedule at the time I wasn't able to be a huge part of the process...he did a ton of research on the vehicle, called quite a few dealerships to speak with sales reps and finally came home with a new vehicle that after negotiation we ended up purchasing the vehicle for 30% less than the sticker price. We can negotiate with the dealer. Most - not all- most women are uncomfortable with this process.

I don't know why Bernina has this clause in their contracts with the dealers, I just know that it is...if we want this to change we need to contact Bernina and campaign for this kind of change. A few years ago a toilet tissue company had & still has commercials with quilters on it. When these first came out the quilters were using knitting needles...enough quilters called to let them know that we don't use knitting needles to quilt...they changed the commercials.

All I'm saying is give Bernina a call and ask why and ask them to change their policy to make it easier to do the research on a product we want.

Teri

Number 41
Did you you buy the Bernina frame for the 730?

Wayland

Teri,

My dealer does quote prices over the phone...as does the other dealer who is located XX miles away. But both also encourage a visit to the shop and will set up a demo time.
I think that a company who has the 'non-quote' issue as a business plan in this day and age of Internet shopping as well as aggressive competitors, gamble at loosing customers.
If my dealer had not been as open as she had been...I would have never bought my Bernina. Like I said...I like my Bernina because it is the machine for me.

I guess my question is: Why does the customer have to jump thru hoops? I am the one with the $$$ in hand waving to spend. Why do I have to jump thru hoops to spend it? It seems that I am the one who has to do the work for Bernina to accept my money. Am I missing something in this concept?

FW

Here's a very, very gentle reminder that the Dealers are contractually obligated NOT to give price quotes over the telephone. The Dealers can not do anything about this, the contract that they have with Bernina would need to be renegotiated and re-signed.

My suggestion to anyone who is interested in purchasing, trading up, doing research etc is to call Bernina's US headquarters (in Chicago) and let Them know you're a dissatisfied either potential Bernina customer, current Bernina customer or a former Bernina customer who would like to be a Bernina customer again. Let them know that you need Bernina dealers to be permitted to give price quotes over the telephone and let them know why. Be kind about it. http://www.berninausa.com/

Customer service is a separate issue. If you're not happy with the customer service with a particular dealer it is helpful to discuss that with them so that they have the opportunity to see what the needs of their customer base are and meet them as best as they are able.

Sometimes a shop and a customer are not a good fit for no particular reason...look around to find a shop that is a good fit.

Teri

Number41 wrote:
I'd love to do research on price, but they won't tell them over the phone. Here we are, right back where we started.
eileenkny

As fabricwhisperer had mentioned, the "Dealer" seems to be the common issue.

I agree that the dealer has quite a bit to do with pricing machines and the quality of service and education offered. I live in the Hampton Roads VA area and there are two Bernina Dealers within about 30 miles of each other. One offeres the 830 for 10k and has wonderful customer relations, service, and education the other one offers the 830 for 12K and has poor customer service. I bought my 730 from the better shop and I stay loyal to that shop but I did drive to the Bernina dealer near my hometown in PA (7 hours away) to purchase the Bernina Frame for $500(who also threw in about $100 of frame accessories) cheaper than it is offered here.

My take on it is do your research. Determine which is important to you; service, customer relations, education, or price and research the best dealer to suit your needs. If you have to drive, make a day trip out of it )

Thank goodness for the internet! I can find things and have more choices on the internet that I can't find locally. And internet businesses seem to "really" want my business. Just received a nice order from TQS...some great things I can't find here.

I've had some of the same feelings about my LQS, oops, I mean Bernina dealer. And for some reason their selection of quilting fabrics, classes, etc. seems to be shrinking. Many of the things they offer are "centered" around buying a new machine accessory or beginner classes.

An hour from where I live is a shop that sells Bernina's and fabric. The owner's main shop is another 45 minutes up the road.
I like to go to the main shop to get fabric. While checking out the lady asked me why I didn't shop at the store closer to where I lived. I told her the other shop was dark and not quilting related. It leaned more toward sewing apparel. She informed me she was the owner and just liked to know customers thoughts. I nearly fainted and was so glad I didn't get to the part about the people that worked there! Whewwww!

She wanted to know what I liked about the main store (the one I was in). I told her it was bright, cheerful and had a lot of samples, patterns and books, as well as new fabrics. A beautiful quilt shop. That's when I got told by the owner. I am not a quilt shop I am a Bernina dealer! Besides wasn't I aware..... Quilting has gone flat.
Can you imagine saying that to a quilter who just dropped over one hundred dollars in your store? I am still shell shocked!

You know that takes time and my time is more important. I work full time and have to figure out where to spend my time.

I did look on e bay yesterday during work. There was one 730 for sale.

I think I want the relationship with the dealer rather with some one that I do not know. And don't want to chase them down when I have a problem...If there was one.

Its true, I have gone to buy several cars in my lifetime and spent less time on it. I know what I want with a car. But these sewing machine dealers
are something else. My dealer now puts the fabric in the back of the store and the machines up front. That says a lot.

It also says 'buyer beware'

Wayland wrote:
Wayland,
Why don't you try to sell it on ebay?
eileenkny

The common theme in this thread seems to be 'The Dealer'. Anyone in business wants to make money. But what is missing in some are customer relations. There are so many other brands of sewing machines available. When I call about the price of a major appliance....I can have quotes over the phone. I can also compare prices on line. But when buying a sewing machine...one really has to sit down and try it. Look at how it is set up...try it out...take her for a test drive.
But one thing that will entice me into the store is a friendly encounter over the phone. Make me want to come...don't make the visit a mystery. The idea of not giving general price points over the phone makes it a mystery...and then I believe I cannot afford the product. I know gals who spent more time picking out a sewing machine then a car. A gal has a personal relationship with her machine. It is an emotional purchase... you hope to spend many blissful hours bonding with your machine. It is our escape into another creative world. But make the process easier...just simply remove the mystery and say...I can set you at your dream machine. Like a car...come in a try our machines. We can work with you on the price. Just as cars...there are many makes and models...we can find the right one for you.
Make the experience worth the drive.
But this is not just a Bernina customer relation issue...this applies across the board. In these economic times, I am amazed at the poor quality of customer service. I vote with my feet...and my wallet. I go where I feel that my purchase and trade is appreciated.
On a side note...I would have a problem with my dealer was xx miles away and had to go there for service. But that is my own issue...for others it is not a problem.

FW